On break from the Mormon Channel I checked on the news, plum forgot about the CIA report, and learned that Dr. Bruce Jessen,

and Dr. James E. Mitchell, seen here jogging to a torture session,

both licensed psychologists, were the designers of the CIA's INEFFECTIVE "enhanced interrogation" methods. Didn't know this but the CIA itself concluded that such methods did not work in its own report in 1988 or 1989.

Reading the little bit I have of the news reports descriptions of the interrogations it really does seem punishment, not interrogation was the aim, torture because the CIA interrogators were pissed after 9/11/01 and just rounded up the usual suspects and brutalized them. That is the way it seemed to me an then I read that the CIA had said torture did not result in reliable intel. So what's wrong with torture of the enemy? Can't do it, Geneva Convention, yada-yada, you just can't do it. We did it overseas too, in foreign countries, it would have been illegal to do it in American jails.

We did it to punish, that is, as the prisoners sentences, after a trial, which they didn't have, after a conviction, which didn't occur, that is what makes it torture, internationally illegal, and not interrogation, a (we think, we hope) legal means to an end, it was not interrogation when the CIA itself had long ago written that that means did not produce a reliable end. It was torture.